Beverley Randall Interview
So, it's the 27th of May 2025. My name's Kiz Durrani. I'm here with Rose O'Donovan and we are interviewing Beverley Randall, who was a Production Manager between 1987 and 1989.
BR: Production co-ordinator
Production co-ordinator.
BR: No problem.
We could just start by asking how you first became involved with Riverside Studios?
My first contact, I think, was the year before, so that would have been '86, I believe. I came to see a production called The Black Jacobins, and this was directed by Yvonne Brewster who had directed a show at Black Theatre Cooperative where I worked the same year. So, that was the beginning.
I mean the building was extraordinary. I knew nothing about it until I came to see the show and didn't realise that, within a year, I'd end up working here. So, that was quite interesting really. Black Theatre Cooperative was my first job in theatre and gave me an insight into a world that I knew nothing about.
So, it was fascinating after spending three years with them to be told that there were interviews coming up at Riverside Studios. And, having seen the building, I thought, wow, to work in that building would be amazing! And so, I applied for the job. And I got it.
[1:38] You mentioned about the building. Can you take us back to any of your sensory experiences when you entered the building, the sights, the sounds, the smells that you experienced?
BR: Right, yeah, oof, thinking about it, kind of walking in, I think the first thing was the scale and the fact that there were two theatres. These huge, big black boxes that could become anything, that I don't think I really appreciated that first time. But it was just this sense of space. And then once I'd become a member of staff, there was also access to the riverfront, at least for staff, which was lovely. It kind of felt like a little hidey place that was all ours.
So, that was one part of it. There was a cafe and a bar and the idea that all these things were in one place was also interesting to me. So, I guess that those are the memories that come back.
Just reflecting back on your time at Riverside Studios, what would you say Riverside offered to you that you might not have been offered elsewhere?
BR: I described Riverside Studios as university, a university of life, a creative university. I hadn't been (to university), in fact, I ended up going years later, but at that time it exposed me to a world I had no idea about. I was grateful to Black Theatre Cooperative for introducing me to theatre, but when I got here, it was an entire world that opened up.
I think partly the role that I had - which meant that I worked with each of the departments - helped me to understand what each of the departments had to do in order for the work to come together. That was extraordinary because it was on such a big scale compared to what I was used to, But the other was the access to the type of work, that I just hadn't seen. You know, as a kid working in a bank as a typist, I'd been to the West End and I'd seen, you know, that kind of show. I'd seen a ballet, I'd seen nothing else. And then suddenly there was this access to an incredible, incredible world of theatre, literally.
[04:04] Leading on from that, what impact did Riverside go on to have on your career and your life?
BR: Well, one was the connections that were made here. So, I think about the London International Festival of Theatre, which was run by Rose and Lucy at that time. And being introduced to them led to me producing a show for LIFT during one of their festivals, which was a collaboration with a Brazilian company. And I don't believe that could ever have been possible without the connections that I'd picked up at Riverside Studios. But also, the understanding of international work and how to work with people, and to try to be that link for people, depending on what it was that they needed while they were in the building, which became one of my roles as well.
[05:08] You mentioned working with different departments and with different people during your time here. Can you reflect on some of your more memorable colleagues from Riverside Studios?
BR: Let me think... there's one person - and I wish I could remember his name - but he ran the production side. I know that he's since, since that time has passed on. I believe he developed cancer, but he was this kind of beautiful human being who was just a power of strength, but very gentle in terms of the way that he dealt with people.
Money of course was always going to be an issue, and it truly was during my time. And being able to carve out what each production needed and how to help and assist those who didn't have as much money, but whose work still needed to be represented. I'm so sorry that I can't remember his name. It's awful to talk about somebody and then not be able to remember, but he was amazing.
A member of his team who I do remember because we continued being friends was Darryl Node. Darryl was someone who again would talk about what each of the different companies needed in terms of the technical side. And, although he was quite brusque in other ways, he had such a heart when it came to what the work was that people were doing. One company that comes to mind was a company called Amici. I'm not sure if Amici is still going, maybe they are, but they were a mixed ability company and the production side would always make sure that funds could be put in the direction of Amici who didn't have it, in order to make sure that the work was presented well.
So yeah, I suppose that was one. What else do I remember? Of course, press and publicity. I remember Darren and Christine (Cort) and Renee. Renee, I think, ran it and again because of needing to make sure that the information that I got from the Artistic Director would have to be disseminated to each of the departments, I spent time with them. And yeah, just lovely.
But also, I think it was the discovery about what people's roles were and how all of that played a part in each of the productions. We were a bit of a one-person shop at Black Theatre Cooperative.
And then working with theatre buildings. To be inside one was a completely different experience. It was fab. Even working with finance. There was a guy (called) Peter. I drove Peter mad with demands that were not my demands, but you know me passing on demands about how much money was required for different productions.
But yeah, lovely, lovely feelings of having great colleagues. Oh, and another; Mark Shepherd. Mark Shepherd ran the catering at Riverside when I was here and he was just such a lovely and delicious man. And I ended up, I know it sounds like I'm talking about food, but he really was so gorgeous.
And going back to a previous question... through Mark, I ended up meeting his wife, who was Juliette Blake. And years later, when I was representing some stand-up comedians - Curtis and Ishmael - it was Juliet who was in the production company that made their first show.
That's the thing with Riverside; you had no idea where things might lead. But what you could have were connections with people who you felt were friends. And I wasn't thinking about what the future was. We were too busy getting on with what we were doing, but all the time these kinds of relationships were being built. So, I love this place. You might have gathered that.
[9:34} I remember that duo Curtis and Ishmael, I think they were on The Real McCoy?
BR: That's right.
Are you still in contact with them?
BR: Mmm. I mean, I haven’t managed them for years. But yeah, we were together for, gosh, I looked after them for I think about twelve years maybe. And the only thing - sorry, I'm jumping all over the place - but the only thing that stopped me being in the business was because I became ill twenty plus years ago, so I had to stop everything. I have a chronic condition. But, up until that point, this was the world, and this world made sense. And you always felt that something that you were doing had an impact because of the, you know, an audience response didn't have to be positive. So in fact, actually it was good if the responses were mixed sometimes. But so long as there's a reaction, not kind of like, you know, ‘what was that? That's not interesting at all’. So, Curtis and Ishmael, that connection, happened because of Mark. Then me meeting Juliet. And I wouldn't have ended up working with Curtis and Ishmael, had I not been here, because (this) is where I met them. They had come to see a show and we ended up having a conversation. And, although initially it was just about kind of connecting with them, a couple of years after that was when I first started managing them.
[11:08] Were there any particular performances or exhibitions that really stand out for you? If you could tell us about those?
Yeah. One of the earliest ones... obviously I've mentioned Black Jacobeans. Job Rocking was incredible. I know we think about Shakespeare as being kind of rhyme, but this was on a different level. And I believe it was also the first time that I met (Job Rocking’s writer) Benjamin Zephaniah, who was an extraordinary human being. I never knew him well, but I knew him over the years and the last time I saw him was at a gathering for Darkus Howe, who was a political activist. And Darcus had just died and there was a gathering in Brixton, and that was the last time that I saw Ben. So, I have that as a memory.
In terms of international work, one that was very powerful for me was the Mali Theatre of Leningrad and it was a piece called Stars in the Morning Sky. I'd never seen anything that wasn't made in London, as far as I knew, and all of a sudden there was this piece of work that was so powerful and also required simultaneous translation. It was a huge thing to have hosted here during my time at Riverside.
What was extraordinary was just the power of this production. I kept looking at and thinking... I felt as if every step that the actors made had been completely thought through. I was using the simultaneous translation for about twenty minutes, half an hour. I thought ‘actually, I don't want this, I just want to engage with what I'm watching’ and switched it off. And that was fascinating for me to discover that theatre doesn't have to be understood with every single word. It is the feeling that it gives you. And Mali theatre gave me that. It was extraordinary.
I remember one afternoon. I think it would have been Di Robson. Was it Di Robson at the time? I can't remember. One of the artistic directors. But while waiting for her or Charlie (Hanson) to arrive, Lev Doddin had arrived, who was the director of the piece. And of course, I had no Russian (and) he really doesn't have English or at least didn't at that time. And we sat down, and he shared vodka with me and somehow, we communicated. And so, it was a bit of a special memory.
Apart from them, another one that really impacted me was No Sugar by Jack Davis, which was an Aboriginal piece. It was here for the Australian bicentenary and, of course, the rest of Britain was interested in celebrating the two-hundred years. This piece was a kind of counter to that - an extraordinary piece of theatre that told the story of Jack when he was a boy.
The other thing that was lovely about it was that it was a promenade piece. Again, something that was new for me. We had a lot of work to do on that one because one of the theatres had to be full of sand and, trying to get the right kind of sand - I had no idea there was such a thing as the right kind of sand! - became really important. And, of course, the cost involved with these sorts of things. And taking the audience on that journey, from one scenario into another. Lovely for the audience, but just awe-inspiring for me to be on both sides of it, to help to put this thing together and then to be able to witness it was amazing.
Actually, it was really interesting; I'd never met an Aboriginal person before this time, and they kept looking at me going “You're a black fella”. And I said “Yeah, like you” and we laughed. But it was a connection with someone who looked like me, but from another part of the world. The opposite part of the world. Yeah, extraordinary.
[15:46] Coming back to Hammersmith, Hammersmith itself plays a role in the life of Riverside Studios. It's the setting for Riverside Studios. How would you say it's changed over the time since you were working here?
BR: Gosh, I mean, it's gentrified compared to when I was here. I mean, lovely, things in terms of the building is the fact that it is quite beautiful and that now everyone can have access to the river front. I think actually, to be fair, that was a move in the right direction. The building looks, looks great. I love that.
I remember there were times when, back in the 1980s, when I finished work, I'm making my way back to Hammersmith tube station and it really at times felt like, you know, I really need to be on my guard while I'm walking. It didn't really feel that safe and that doesn't feel the same now when you've got these shopping malls and all kinds of stuff. So, it's quite a different space to when I was here.
[16:57] Did you feel able to involve the local community and young people in Riverside during your time here?
BR: Yeah. I'm trying to think, cos there was a group who were here... Again, I don't remember their name. They had a space here. Was it Young Blood? They were a black group who were based here. But honestly, I have little recollection of them, so I'm not gonna, I don't remember to be honest.
I kind of feel like there must have been... but Job Rocking was as I was entering, and I have a feeling that Job Rocking did have connections with the local community. But in my time, I don't have a recollection of that.
[17.55] Just staying on that sort of theme, do you feel that Riverside Studios have provided young people with an introduction to the arts?
BR: I think what was interesting for me coming from Black Theatre Cooperative, (where) the focus was about doing Black work that was related particularly to those who were born in Britain. Then, coming to Riverside Studios... Riverside Studios already had a connection before I arrived with Black theatre companies, and I think that was something that already existed here. It wasn't something that they had to kind of, you know, it's a horrible expression, but anyway, tick a box and say, oh you know, we're also doing a Black work. They were doing it and so I assume it was a much more organic connection with people that they already knew and became part of Riverside.
So, Riverside Studios was doing work that was based in Britain that was young and exciting. And it was doing international work that also kind of reflected that. So I feel that, I don’t know whether it was part of a brief or not, I kind of suspect not. Having worked here, it always felt as if it was something that was interesting and there was a connector point and then you could end up in Riverside Studios.
And having the cafe also meant that people came in even if they weren't interested in the work. It was an inviting place. You'd come along, Mark cooked great food - it's kind of obvious that I really had a thing about that - and so that was also part of it. So, although I don't have a personal recollection, maybe something with the gallery could well have been happening on that level. But it did feel like it was an inclusive space, not exclusive. Even though, you know, a lot of the work was high art.
And that's just reminded me that another piece that was here, that was quite exciting was Kenneth Branagh's Twelfth Night. Again, I knew who he was, I could recognise him, but the fact that that theatre was coming in here and that we had to have the police and the sniffer dogs and all this kind of thing... And then the big gala opening with Prince Charles, who Kenneth Branagh had as his patron, was very exciting and the complete opposite end of the things that I knew and had experienced. But all of that was possible at Riverside Studios. And I think that's kind of the excitement about being here and why I call it my university. It really was.
[20:51] And are there any elements of the current Riverside that you think have been lost really from the Riverside that you knew?
BR: It's difficult to say because I haven't spent enough time here. That's not really a reflection on Riverside Studios (because) I've been living out of the country. When I became ill, I lost ten years and then thought, how do I, for want of a better expression, reinvent myself? And one of the ways of like healing, was to go to university. The literal one!
At that point I was living in Bath. So, I went off to university and did English Literature and Creative Writing and had a whale of a time. And it all kind of helped me to think, all right, how do you kind of manoeuvre yourself in a world that may or may not involve work? How can you do that?
So, university became the first leg. And then I ended up becoming an Erasmus student, which I didn't think was possible in my fifties. I didn't even know what it was, to be fair. And I ended up in Spain and discovered that, through just doing a TEFL course, I could teach English. So then that was the next decade of my life. So, I haven't been back in the country very long.
I came back here first, after all that time, a couple of years ago for the (Riverside Studios heritage project) exhibition of Benjamin Zephaniah. And being able to reflect on a Riverside that was my time, was so lovely. I really enjoyed looking at these old black and white photographs and going, oh my God, I remember this, I remember this person, and so on. It was just lovely. So, to be fair, Riverside, my kind of current version of Riverside, took me back to my old Riverside. It's kind of nice.
[22:55] Reflecting back, what difference do you think Riverside Studios made at the time or has made subsequently?
BR: Oh, the difference it made back then I think was huge. I think that Riverside reflected a kind of counterculture. It's like whatever was happening in the world, in terms of I don't know, how do you how do you put it, what was happening in in the world of young people was being reflected in Riverside Studios. So, it was a counterculture - and I think a really important one.
We were talking about the theatre companies that existed, that were Black and Asian, were reflecting people who were born in this country and those numbers were greater than those who'd arrived. So, there was a whole kind of movement of togetherness between the races that, in some respects, hadn't existed before in that way. And this was being reflected in this theatre for sure.
I think probably (also at) other venues like the ICA and Theatre Royal Stratford East, these kind of places...But for me, right at the heart of it, because this is where I was, was Riverside Studios doing it on the ground level and also doing it internationally, which was really important.
You know, I’m talking about Maly Theatre of Leningrad coming here with KGB officers. That was the reality of what we were dealing with at that time. Having an Aboriginal theatre company in Riverside Studios at a time when everyone else was celebrating the Britishness of Australia was incredible. So those are the kind of memories that are really important to me.
Also, another group - sorry that's just popped into my mind - was the Wooster Group. I remember seeing the Wooster Group and just thinking what the hell is this and really not liking it. But passionately hating it and being able to speak to the theatre company afterwards and say, I hated what you did. They went ‘That's fantastic, it's fantastic’. You either love it, or you hate it. And it took some time to really understand their work. I remember years later going to see Brace Up. I remember that one, because this was my understanding of what it was that the Wooster group could do by taking a piece of work that existed and then putting a spin on it that nobody else was doing. And I thought that they were extraordinary. So, for me, that's the legacy that Riverside Studios created during my time. And, I’m sure, before that. And I trust is continuing to do so.
[26:20] You've certainly touched on this but how would you capture the uniqueness of Riverside Studios?
BR: I think, yeah, one part of it definitely is about the building; a space that allows people to look at it and be able to throw all their creativity in because there was nothing in the way. And I think there's something about that that's actually quite important. You could do what you liked in those spaces - finances permitting - but you could do that.
The other was the kind of people that were attracted to work in Riverside Studios. Now I might not be able to remember their names, but I know they existed. They brought something into this building that affected the way the building was seen. So, a black box can become anything, which would be determined by who walked into that space and could imagine what they could do with it. So, I think that's part of the uniqueness.
[27:28] As you may have seen, we've recently published a small guide called The Riverside Story. There's an image here from the exhibition that you mentioned of Benjamin Zephaniah. Just wondering whether you could perhaps talk a bit more about your interactions with Benjamin Zephaniah.
BR: So, Benjamin was, I don't know, he was an extraordinary human being really because he had such a clear idea about what was missing. And he had a way of being able to say it, that, at the time, nobody else was saying in terms of his poetry, putting that to music, writing Job Rocking... I mean, it was extraordinary that somebody could come up with a full length play in that way. For me was amazing.
As a human being, he had a gentleness about him that was very beautiful. And actually, I just remember one interaction that Benjamin and I had. We were having a chat and he was talking about being in Yugoslavia and he said ‘You know Bev, I was going for one of my walks and I was coming down the side of this mountain and past a hut and an old guy came out of the hut and threw himself onto the ground.’
I said why? And he said ‘I didn't know either’. He said ‘I had my locks out because it was just me walking on the streets by myself and this guy looked at me and he went “Are you Jesus?”. And I thought, whoa! And it made me realise how many images of us existed in Europe that we didn't necessarily know about Black Madonna's and so on. Obviously, this old guy who was probably a goat herder or something like this had an image that sparked something in him in relation to me’.
And that's something that Benjamin always paid attention to. It was those little things that he then fed back into into his work. And I think the greatest thing about Ben is that, at the beginning, his work had a kind of fierce anger to it. Quite right. But the thing that really mattered to him most of all was love and it was how we interacted with each other and the fact that if we could understand that humanity becomes more important than any of those other differences. If we could work at that, then we've achieved something. I think he stands for that. At least for me.
[30:24] Thank you, Bev, that's a wonderful description. Are there any other memories that you'd like to share before we close the interview?
BR: No. I kind of think that where we've come to is perfect because I agree with Ben. It's always going to be about that. Our humanity is the most important thing, and this building played a part in mine, in terms of the things that it exposed me to, which added to how I look at the world. And that's love.
[31:03] Can I spoil the perfect ending by asking a question?
BR: Sure.
I feel like there probably wasn't a typical day for you Bev, but if you had to condense things into what your role encompassed, what did a day look like at Riverside Studios from when you arrived at .....?
BR: Nine in the morning, more or less. It really depended on what was happening on that day. It involved a lot of paperwork always, you know? Computerised systems? No! Huge files, speaking to people in the different departments, just checking where we were in relation to publicity having gone out.
[31:57] No email...
BR: No! [laughs] It was so basic. I ran from department to department making sure that everything was okay. And when theatre companies were arriving, often it would be me that would go to the airport to pick them up. So, you know, I didn't have a typical day, and I absolutely loved it. I love the fact that I didn't have a typical day!
[32:20] That would terrify some people, but obviously you are, you liked the work. You like that eclectic mix, but also you're adaptable, I would say.
BR: There was a real buzz about having to figure out how we could get to the point of the production opening. And I'm not an artist, but I absolutely love the fact that what I did was so important in order for the work to happen. So, the stage, all the stuff that we did that got it to the point where it was in front of an audience, was an incredible privilege to be part of. So, I loved it. It was a crazy schedule, because often you would end up then watching a show and then you're interacting with people. It's an entire day; it doesn't make sense. It really in many respects doesn't make sense. And yet, if you love this work, it makes perfect sense.
[33.25] You say you're not (creative), but you are, because if you hadn't been there, that work wouldn't have come to fruition. Because, you know, you're pulling levers and you're opening doors for people, you're enabling the artists to actually get their work on. So, it is a creative role.
BR: True. Just... I suppose I mean not frontline creative. But yeah, I mean...
You’re a plate spinner at least.
Yeah. And I don't belittle any of that because I think it's really important. And I think that, to work in this business, whatever the areas that you're working in, if the creativity is not important, then you could go and work in a bank, because a lot of those areas are not dissimilar. What makes it different is why you're doing it. For me, the work that I was doing at Black Theatre Cooperative, at Riverside Studios, in television, all of that meant something to me, because of what we were trying to create. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense.
[34:37] Did you come across (Samuel) Beckett?
BR: Yes. Yes, I did.
Anyone who was here in 1987, at that time, has that (experience). It's quite a prominent memory that he was just here.
BR: The fact that it was here was something I knew about, but I wasn't. I didn't have that as part of my experience because that had happened before I arrived in the building. And it was a real shame.
So, I knew about it. (And) I could sing (about) it when I got to see some of Beckett's work, because again all of this was new for me.
It literally was like being a child in a sweet shop, just thinking, whoa, they make them in that shape! Yeah, it was just being introduced to a world that completely opened my eyes in ways that I can't really explain, beyond the minutes that I've spent explaining! And that completely forged a career for me, that I had no idea that I was about to step into.
[35:52] Thank you. I'm going to hand back to the real interviewers.
Any further questions?
Just to say how enjoyable it's been listening to you.
BR: Oh, thank you. I can say it's been a huge pleasure sharing them!
